The Seoul National University club for disability rights, With:D, started its student activities under the name of ‘Turn to Able’ in 2014. In 2019, the discussion on ‘ableism’, that the name derives from a non-disabled perspective looking towards persons with disabilities, promoted the club to change the name to With:D from last year. With:D means to stand with disabilities, differences, and diversity.

With the aim to “stand to advocate for the rights and interests of persons with disabilities so that their lives can qualitatively equate to the lives of the majority by students with and without disabilities that are interested to improve disability rights”, we will learn about the With:D activities and opinions on diversity on campus and off-campus grounds. An in-person interview was scheduled, but due to the recent surges of the coronavirus, a written interview was conducted. 

Please tell us about yourself and how you joined the club? 

• Jungwoo: This is Jungwoo Son who likes With:D(henceforth Widi). I am currently enrolled in the class of 2020 at the Department of Ethic Education. I joined Widi because there was someone close to me with disabilities, and living proximately to a person with disabilities naturally led me to be interested in disability rights. I think the biggest strength of Widi is that we can share ideas and learn together with people that have similar but different concerns. 
• Jiwoo: Hello. My name is Jiwoo Kim in the class of 2020 at the Department of Sociology. I use a wheelchair to get by and I have been communicating with Turn to Able (current With:D) since I was preparing for my college applications. From then, I have been thinking, ‘If I get accepted, I must join Turn to Able’. 
• Wonbin: My name is Wonbin Choi, class of 2020 at the Department of Political Science and International Relations, and I currently serve as the president of Widi. I don’t think I had a special reason to join the club, but I thought the activities on disability rights was interesting and that I could learn new things here. Now, I don’t perceive learning disability studies and discussions regarding this issue as just interesting. Rather I find it as activities that require us to face weight and discomfort on the topic. 
• Hyunjun: This is Hyunjun Byun, a student of Sociology in the class of 2020. As I met with these three people, I became interested in disability right issues and started joining them. 

The publication ‘Thisable’ that steadily published from the beginning has recently parted ways as an independent student media organization. Can you explain the content and the role it will play in the future? 

• Jungwoo: Thisable is an independent press that writes freely and publishes content regarding disability rights. Though the main subject is about human rights for persons with disabilities, we also publish writings that encourage to question ‘normality’ of society, the non-disabled centrism, or merit systems. I have participated in the writing process three times so far, and every time I write, I think my thoughts on the aim of the publication change.  I am currently preparing the 13th volume, and I think this publication could play a role in providing an alternative perspective to a society where benevolent prospects and exclusive attitudes towards disabilities are rampant. 

We are eager to hear about your activities as a club that ‘congregates students with and without disabilities to deliberate and act to create a disability-friendly school and social environment’. Can you explain your major activities and share some examples of how you are collaborating with internal and external institutions to make this possible? 

• Wonbin: Currently, Widi is compromised with a planning team, academic team, and barrier-free team.  The planning team is ‘a team that prepares barrier-free meetings and events. The academic team reads related books or articles, and ‘is a team that focuses on holding discussions on disability studies and subjects regarding disabilities’. As a functional team to create a barrier-free environment inside and outside school grounds’, the barrier-free team ensures that the discussed matters would be put into practice by researching problems in various institutions, providing suggestions, and demanding improvements. Additionally, as a member of ‘the University Student Network for Disability Rights’ Widi works together with disability right’s supporting clubs in other universities to raise voices on disability awareness in and out the college grounds. 
• Jungwoo: In the first semester of this year, the Widi academic team read ‘The Challenge of Disability Studies’ by Dohyeon Kim together and held a seminar. This year, we are planning to hold a joint seminar with the Chung-Ang University’s Council for Disability Rights, from the end of August to the beginning of September. 
• Jiwoo: I am the team leader of the barrier-free team, and last semester, we investigated the building of the College of Social Sciences with the Social Science Student Council. Furthermore, we are trying to create an equal foundation where everyone can attend school comfortably by carrying out a full-scale investigation of Kiosks on campus, and an investigation on school roads. 

We saw an article about how the With:D had created a ‘University Virtual Education Management Manual for Deaf-Blind Students’ for a student rights research contest that was hosted by the SNU Human Rights Center. It seems like the virtual learning experience differs according to the type of disability. Could you tell us about the challenges of the research you did and what you learned during it? 

• Jungwoo: I once had a virtual meeting to present the manual with the support of Rehabilitation International Korea and was impressed with the opinion that various elements would need to be considered for students with hearing impairments. They suggested specific support should be considered depending on the student; students may have residual hearing, have a preferred voice, or maybe using an assistive device. Upon this suggestion, we thought it was necessary to properly investigate the individual elements and needs to implement these components when building the manual. 
• Wonbin: The reason we started this research was after we came across an article that said that the right to study for students with disabilities were not properly guaranteed in the virtual learning environment. During the one-year research period, there was were many lacking aspects such as policies and responses by institutions within the university. 

Various efforts for students with disabilities attending Seoul National University are being made by the Office of Student Affairs, also by each college department. What are the most helpful support facility or systems, and what needs to be improved foremost from the perspective of students with disabilities? 

• Jiwoo: I wasn’t fully able to explore the campus life since I entered college last year, but the system that helped me the most was the ‘’priority in class registration for students with disabilities’.  This was because I use a wheelchair and I have more things to consider compared to other students when I register for classes such as finding the route between buildings before the semesters start, and to check the location and accessibility of classrooms. The university believes that they are making considerable educational preparations, but there is still much to improve in terms of the physical environment. For example, the fact that there is not a single wheelchair-accessible shuttle bus within the university, there is only one vehicle to support students with disabilities, and even for this, the restrictions to only be able to apply for one set schedule for the whole semester were the most difficulties I encountered. 

What kind of efforts do you think are needed to break down to barrier between students with disabilities and those that do not? (institutional, program, physical environment, etc)

• Jungwoo: I think the most necessary is to build a barrier-free environment in and out of the university. Even at Sharosu-gil, a place where many SNU students meet up for meals, it is hard to find a barrier-free restaurant. I think there should be an increased amount of barrier-free spaces in and out of colleges so that both students with and without disabilities could use them without any inconvenience. I think it is also necessary for colleges to provide sufficient assistive devices and mobile vehicles to students with disabilities. According to a response of one hearing impaired student, it was difficult to participate in team discussions when stenographies were not timely performing. In the virtual learning environment, it was difficult to understand or participate in real-time conversations as a new stenography platform was not introduced. Removing these barriers are the top priority in breaking down the ‘wall’ between students with and without disabilities. 
• Hyunjun: When a non-disability-centered sociophysical environment is established and through that, the social exclusion of students with disabilities is experienced, the encounter of both parties experience unfamiliarity. The “wall between students with disabilities and without disabilities” can be divided into two layers. The main route within the campus is full of stairs and often, one needs to go a long way around to use the ramps. Even more, classrooms are often inaccessible or only accessible from specific locations. This is a problem that the university headquarters have been neglecting for a long time. It may be deceptive to say that we are “breaking down the barrier between students with and without disabilities” while ignoring environmental issues such as omitting ‘alternative text’ when writing card news or web newsletters, or not providing real-time stenography during meetings. 

Could you recommend any movies or books for Seoul National University members to improve disability awareness?

• Jungwoo: I recommend visiting the annual ‘Seoul Disabled People Right’s Film Festival’ around May, which screens barrier-free films with screen description, subtitles, and sign language at the Marronnier Park in Hyehwadong. This year, under the slogan of ‘I will not go back’, various documentaries and topics on mobility rights and deinstitutionalization were screened.  
• Jiwoo: I recommend the book ‘Exile and Pride’. The author Eli Clare is from a working-class village born with congenital intellectual disability, a survivor of sexual assault by a family member, and biologically female but identifies as a minority with a genderqueer identity. Without restricting to a single identity, and constantly being introspective, I would like to recommend this book to those that are interested in learning about sexual identities for sexual minorities.   
• Wonbin: I highly recommend the book ‘the Challenge of Disability Studies’. I felt it would be a good book for those who are unfamiliar with the study of disabilities or are curious to learn in detail about the topic. It is a book that allows you to question undeniable concepts, so please read it when you have time.   
• Hyunjun: I would like to recommend ‘The Road to School’. This film skillfully depicts how responsibilities for coexistence are being unloaded upon family members and revealing the existence of a social dynamic behind this system. 

Can you recommend some ways to improve diversity, inclusion, and belonging within Seoul National University? 

• Jiwoo: I feel strange emotions when I come across an event that is not accessible to everyone, or a facility that only considers students without disabilities. This probably means that values such as diversity and inclusion are not properly respected. I would like to give an example of the sociology department to which I belong. On a day of a big annual event, I remember that event because even though I did not express my participation, the event organizers set up the after-party at a wheelchair-accessible restaurant. It showed that diversity and inclusiveness should not be only accomplished with the presence of a person bringing different values, but is accomplished when we reconsider our standard ‘defaults’ and contemplate the mean of such values. 
• Hyunjun: I think that the charter of human rights is what Seoul National University needs the most. Of course, diversity cannot exist with just one charter alone but would need specific methods following it. Institutions such as the Center for Students with Disabilities and the Human Rights Center would need to improve their performance regardless of various reasons why they cannot perform. 

What is ‘Diversity’ for you? 

• Jungwoo: I think diversity is individuality. It’s not about being thought of as a member of a particular group, it’s about being able to exist as a unique person that is distinctively different from every other person. It seems that only certain ‘classified’ persons are particularly labeled to be diverse; people with disabilities, people of color, women, and other classified people groups. Perhaps a society in which the perception of diversity itself has disappeared is a society where individual characteristics would be respected. 
• Jiwoo: It is an always existing, a basic value that must be rightfully respected. As it can be seen in the movement to continuously create various genetic combinations, diversity is an essential element for the existence of life.   
• Wonbin: A society where differences do not lead to discrimination is a world where diversity is exhibiting. We all deserve as individual beings, and wouldn’t a society where differences are respected be the most ideal society.  
• Hyunjun: A space where diversity is present it would be a space where no one would experience discrimination or exclusion for simply existing and would be able to comfortably and safely exist. 

Do you have any future plans and any last words you would like to say? 

• Jungwoo: I want to continue studying disability studies with members and I am personally interested in deinstitutionalization, so I want to study in detail! 
• Jiwoo: I am expanding my experience after working with Widi barrier-free team and forming an organization called ‘Seobaegong’. It is an organization that does a lot of activities to promote barrier-free spaces both in and out of the university grounds. Recently, we have been working on a ramp installation project in commercial areas around Seoul National University. There are people who seek change in Widi, and there are those who contemplate not letting go of anyone. I particularly would like more students with disabilities to join our club.       
• Wonbin: I believe Widi will grow into an organization where many can learn and act for disability rights. I want to invite those that started to gain interest in disability rights or want to make a change together! I am reminded of the phrase “defending for the hope of those that are marginalized and in low places”, but I want to continue to contemplate and work towards a society where low places are not simply regarded as a low place.    
• Hyunjun: I want to continue to learn and achieve more while working with these free people. I also hope that the university and our society will change as a result of those activities.